Curse

Beelzebuddy · Aug 08, 2006, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Before we begin with the flat-out lies, let's take a moment to review what we know of the ANet dev team.

Anet likes borrowing from other cultures - The Asian Canthans, Germanic Kurzicks, and aboriginal Luxons are all good examples of this. Furthermore, ANet's borrowing is vaguer and more subtle than, say, a Disney cartoon; the Teutonic theme of the Kurzicks rests on little more than naming styles and dark, oppressive atmosphere, nevertheless the Black Forest feeling is quite real.
Anet loves ironic settings - Maguuma, a jungle in a desert. The many, many shipwrecks scattered around the Crystal Desert. The German-Asian Kurzicks, and Indian-Asian Luxons. Seas and trees turned to stone.

Also keep in mind that chapter Four will arrive in mid-spring and be played throughout the summer just as Factions was, and that it will be preceded by a desert-themed expansion. Therefore, chapter Four will be a land of ice.

Ice, yes, but not always so. A few decades ago Four was a warm marshland, heavily forested with giant mangrove trees towering above the swampy undergrowth. The oldest of the old remember this clearly, looking back on the days when huddling around a campfire was a joyous thing, and not a necessity. Their children have vague memories of the warmth but were old enough to mark its end, as the world became colder and colder from the ground up. First the deep land froze, driving the dwarves from the earth along with a myriad other horrible creatures. Then the swamp, forcing its inhabitants to convert their boats and pole barges to impromptu sleds, pulled by tame gurshak. Finally the mangrove trees froze, caught as perfectly as if in a painting. It still hasn't snowed, but no one doubts that it will someday. The youth of Four know only the cold, and it's said that it can be seen reflected in their eyes.

Before the cold, Four was already split along class lines. An aristocracy of mesmers and other spellcasters in decadent cities (Architecture: Mississippi steamboat stylings. Interiors: cozy, ornate, festive, like the smoking room at an English hunter's club with Mardi Gras decorations) ruled over the hovel-dwelling peasants. Like most feudal systems it was despised by the commoners, but not quite enough for them to rebel. Since the ice came the divide has grown. The ruling class, comprising the vast majority of magic in the land, has almost entirely withdrawn into their plush, magically heated lifestyle and cut themselves off from the outside world. The common folk have been left, quite literally, in the cold.

The Have-nots

And what cold. The focus of the common folk and the theme of player time spent among them should be mere survival. It's nearly impossible to survive on your own out in the cold; fire elementalists might be able to do it, while water eles and necromancers have their own ways of handling the chill. Everyone else huddles together and gets along as best they can (architecture: stereotypical cajun shacks, bordered by swampboats converted to sleds, with open fires everywhere). Early missions and quests should revolve around this: escorting a fire mage to a struggling camp, helping monks look for survivors in a fallen one, fighting to establish a new location and strike a blow against the ice, etc.

A few missions in, the quest line shifts to address the actual story. A fragment of an ancient prophecy is uncovered that warns of the "glacial genesis." Efforts to connect it with other prophecies to find some way of ending the cold should involve trying in vain to cooperate with the aristocrats, getting snubbed, and eventually breaking into their libraries and stealing what you need. You locate the cold's source, and the player party leaves their friends behind to find it.

New shout: "I've Got Mine!"

The aristocrats, on the other hand, focus on different matters. I don't mean to cast them as bad guys, though they might appear to be such. In their minds they are justified: how are they supposed to magically divine the root cause of the cold snap if they spend all their efforts keeping everyone warm? "Insular to the point of negligence" is the theme of this area. Assuming Nightfall does not feature a false prophet character it would be good to base these missions around one: a "seer" who insists that he can uncover the source of the cold if only he had a personal pocket dimension or some powerful item, presumably to see with. Quests and missions should partly deal with the outside world at first (defending a city from outside monsters/rebels, securing some aid for the commoners) but quickly introvert into political squabbles, establishing and securing the seer's dimension, i.e. navelgazing.

At this point, several things can happen. The seer can turn out to be a good guy and uncover the source of the cold weather. Or, the seer can turn out to be a jerk and disappear instead. Lastly, the seer himself can turn out to be the source of the cold, and reward your efforts for him with "Thanks, suckas, now I can freeze the rest of the world, too." That one's not very likely seeing as Prophecies had a very similar plot twist, but it's there for completion's sake.

This ambiguous area ending can be handled in terms of gameplay in several ways as well. The quest line could terminate there, with the inhabitants squabbling and fighting each other like the end of Dr. Strangelove. The player party could rendevous with the commoner quest line ala "Into the Whirlpool," and continue on to beat the game (this would be best for the "helpful seer" ending). Finally, the missions could also be one huge loop: the players decide "screw these guys" and go back to help the poor instead, starting from the first wilderness mission.

We ain't in Lhasa any more, Burntfur

Astute readers will have mentally pointed out that Guild Wars expansions thus far have had three major areas (Kaineng, Echovald and Jade Sea, for example). You are right, and I would not want to rob you of that. What the third area should bring to the chapter is a chance for a decent storyline. Anet, hire a great writer and get good voice actors. Hire some other writers and have them help your first writer. Have them come up with a subplot. A character conflict. Something more interesting than Generic RPG Fodder. Take that script, and do not let whatever department in most game companies is responsible for shitting on good storylines shit on it.

What the area is composed of is less important than removing ANet's "horrible PvE storyline" albatross. Certainly it would need to be an open area, after dense forest and claustrophobic fortresses. One possiblity is to draw on other views of Americana - cattle ranges, or the wheat fields of the Midwest. Another approach deeply steeped in irony would be to borrow from Tibet instead, and set the area in a very high plateau, where either from the altitude or the fact that it's always cold anyway few people even notice the curse. Or my preferred third area, the Charr.

I'll elaborate on this, because I think another encounter with the Charr offers the best shot at making the game deeper than it currently is. To begin with, the fire based Charr would be well prepared to combat the ice on their own, without human assistance. Also, Tyrian allies likely have a deep and profound hatred for the Charr. It'd be great if in an early mission the party comes across a band of Charr getting their furry little asses whooped by ice monsters. A native ally wants to save them as they'd be helpful in locating whatever the writers have agreed is a good way to end the expansion, while Aidan (for good reason) wants to watch them die, preferably as slowly as possible. Have an argument break out. Have there be screaming. Aidan ragequits, and the rest of you go on to rescue the Charr and explain that you're there for a peaceful purpose that would benefit everyone, not to wage war or anything. Said Charr, though understanding that you saved their asses still refuse to talk to you, but they don't outright attack you either. They're still not good guys, but honorable bad guys who owe you a serious favor. This incarnates as a large outpost near their clan encampment, and smaller ones dotted here and there. Finally, one quest in the area should be to find Aidan and make peace, after all these are not the same Charr. Apologies are spread all around, and the reunited party continues on.

At any rate, that's my vision of Chapter Four. Or Five. Or whenever ANet decides they need a good one. What's yours?

P.S. If it's not too much trouble, at least try to stay somewhat grammatically correct. The general dearth of capital letters and punctuation in this forum saddens my heart.

Horseman Of War · Aug 08, 2006, 08:44 PM // 20:44

um are you luxon?

cuz we luxon are gypsy, h0mEy

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Aside from that personal difference of opinion- I totally agree with you on the "new orleans style" of cantha

(i mean heck, voodoo & ninja? yeah agreed-> cajun+japan+india=Factions)
And yes- Kurzicks are germanic for shizzle.

I also had a feeling that the Chapter4 would be somewhat arctic- although what would they 'mix' it with to make it unique?

Each chapter needs its apocalypse - jade wind, searing, nightfall - so unfortuantely, freezing an entire continent would be too similar to the jade wind....

TheMosesPHD · Aug 08, 2006, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Well first we went south, next we're prolly going East to the desert area, and so 4 and 5 will prolly go west and north, and then who knows from there. I remember an interview a while back talking about how they are going to try and expand their customer base to more and more countries, and they mentioned Africa and Brazil. They released an Asian themed game when they expanded their services to Asia, and since Chapter 3 may be following the same idea and targeting African players, I was thinking Chapter 4 might be targeting Brazil. This would mean Jungle I guess, which would go along with what seems to lie West of Tyria.

Or perhaps they would do this in Chapter 5, or never.

Of course I still hold strong with my claims that Chapter 4 will be set in a continent floating amongst the clouds. I declared my demands for spears in Chapter 3 back when they first released info on Factions, and look what they have done with Chapter 3 appease me.

And now, as chapter 3's info has been released, I declare my desire for a floating continent, and rest assured, it shall be done

Now you're speaking of an icey world. And what place on earth is colder than high in the sky? A land that was once warm, now floating, becomes cold :P

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O.o Sorry, just trying to justify my own claims about chapter 4

I really like your ideas. It'd be fun to play a chapter like what you described. And your idea about the Charr is quite interesting, and I'd bet on it happening some time or the other. We've already got a little buddy on the Tengu side of things.

Branskins · Aug 08, 2006, 10:49 PM // 22:49

Wow! Beautiful writing! I was entertained the whole time and I could have sworn I was almost drooling! I was sad once I got to the end because I was so interested in your ideas and your plot.

Character struggle would be something different in the Guild Wars series and something you should consider. Tyria was more about your character destroying a problem that already happened. Factions had problems within the city but none of it really affected you.

I say in Chapter Four introduce more of a character struggle. It is cold, dark, and an age of despair and depression is not far off.

Now I know some people will disagree with character development. In order to counter this it would be important to have effects that do not render your character completely useless while also not introducing any grind.

Some ideas that I have come up with:
1) Something like energy exhaustion but it would affect your health. In areas with intense cold this could be triggered for every 5 seconds of standing still. Maybe a warm drink could stop this effect for 10 minutes.

2) Introduce a special NPC that is part of your character's family. Some time through the game this character could suffer from an illness (something caused by the cold) or maybe he could die protecting your character. It could be possible to keep this character alive through some kind of treatment.

Man it is hard thinking of things that everyone could like :/

Really nice job on the concept of Chapter four.

Rent · Aug 08, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beelzebuddy

P.S. If it's not too much trouble, at least try to stay somewhat grammatically correct. The general dearth of capital letters and punctuation in this forum saddens my heart.

Hi hello welcome to Guru enjoy your stay.

On-topic: Meh. Far-future holds little interest to me at the moment, when at the moment we know literally next to nothing about Nightfall. One step at a time, I think.

Though the complete and utter lack of snow in Factions (and likely in Nightfall, considering its location) has rather depressed me. I adored the Shiverpeaks, and I certainly hope we will have more icy areas in the future.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 09, 2006, 02:07 AM // 02:07

There isn't any snow on the little mountain right outside Shing Jea? I will have to check that.

I know Prophecies doubles by the shiverpeaks twice making it the most prominet region in Tyria, and there is plenty of snow there, but Tyria pretty much includes everything.....

I always wondered if Orr would rise from the Depth of the sea, the Viser looked somewhat Middle Eastern, but could very easily be South American looking, it would have an almost Atlantis kind of feel.

If they go north I highly doubt it will be cold, the Fire lands of the Char are anything but cold, and there is no indication of ice lands to the west either.

I think a mountainous Chapter would be great, not just icy mountains, but green and living mountains as well. An entire Chapter of Ice will get real old fast. Tyria had a once green land now scorched by the Searing, Icy Mountains, Marsh and wild lands, Jungle and Sahara lands, A dried out body of water which is now a desert, and a Volcanic Island, And I think some underground too. Cantha has a Tropical island, An entire corner of continent covered by city, one side of what was a sea now turned to Jade, and cavernes dug below the Jade, what was once a forest turned to amber, and buildings built into the petrified woods.

A Chapter covered in Ice, I don't think so, A chapter with some icy regions, well sure they will have some more of that. I don't want to go snow blind.

I would perfer a Lush Green Mountain which brings back the landscape simular to Ascolon before it was burned, it seems a great deal of the lands in GW are Warped by some great Catastophy, Fields to Flames, Sunken Cities, Dried Seas, Petrified Forests and Jaded Seas, it would be nice to find some virgin lands.

Urban_Nomad · Aug 09, 2006, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Mmmm, I hope the Ice/Nordic chapter is Chapter 5, for the sole reason that I want the Prophecies team to make it. A little biased, I know, but I really like the colder northern areas of the world, I just want it to be one of the better chapters

Super_Nerd0 · Aug 09, 2006, 04:44 AM // 04:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Branskins

2) Introduce a special NPC that is part of your character's family. Some time through the game this character could suffer from an illness (something caused by the cold) or maybe he could die protecting your character. It could be possible to keep this character alive through some kind of treatment.

This is an online RPG. Not everyone is in the same family, so everyone would have a different NPC that has the same thing happen at the same time. That would be too hard.

Pillz_veritas · Aug 09, 2006, 06:27 AM // 06:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by BahamutKaiser

I always wondered if Orr would rise from the Depth of the sea, the Viser looked somewhat Middle Eastern, but could very easily be South American looking, it would have an almost Atlantis kind of feel.

As it seems they are continuing there theme of having each chapter running concurrently, I do not think this will be the fourth chapter. They have said that they do not intend to return to Tyria, and if they do it will be in the far future. (we can see where Orr laid on Tyrian Maps) However, if they *do* return to Tyria in the future, this is one of the areas that I feel they will revisit...

Sli Ander · Aug 09, 2006, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Fascinating ideas, and I love the thought you put into the Aidan conflict. I hope they use that sometime. While an entire area of Ice is unlikely(due to the varied nature of each continent so far, we'll have to wait for Nightfall to see that), it would be very nice to see the style make a come back. And as for the Charr lands being unlikely to be covered in snow? Didn't you ever wonder why Charr love fire so much? Maybe they torched Ascalon to make it a suitable place to live(on their way to world searing), as the ice was moving south...But thats just an idea. I plan on waiting to find out.

BahamutKaiser · Aug 10, 2006, 02:47 AM // 02:47

I think the storyline behind the char says their fire, which they worship, compelled them to burn the cities of men, but it has been so long. If you look at the scenery leading up to the north border, it is tar and scorched lands, they may have been green before the seering, and may still be green further up, there could be mountains beyond that, but as I said, I would pefer some green mountains instead of a repeat of the shiverpeaks.

The northern parts of ascolon are already mountainous but not snowy.

Orr may have been on the Tyrian map, but it was sunk into the sea, they could do a chapter with sea exploration and make Orr, either sunken or risen, a location which you can travel too, naturally the sea connects to many continents, or should I say it seperates them.

I say that Icy mountains are very simular to Shiverpeaks, and in the interest of unique landscapes, I say ditch the land and head out on the seas. Island and Beaches with Sea Farring cultures would be very original and bring in some very unique landscapes, right now we only have a few ports and Fishermans Haven to reflect oceanside culture, and oceanside as well as Islander cultures make up a very significant yet diverse portion of a natural world.

Beelzebuddy · Aug 10, 2006, 03:57 AM // 03:57

Bahamut, that is the second grossly uninformed post you have made in this thread. I was hoping you'd actually read the OP after your first one, but apparently I hoped in vain. Careful perusal of the third freaking paragraph should have indicated that this was not a historically cold land, quite the opposite, and that the landscape is most likely not snowy, seeing as I explicitly said it hasn't snowed.

Let's see what we can gather from those descriptions. It's freezing on the ground, but it hasn't snowed. Therefore, whatever is causing the cold doesn't reach the sky. If it doesn't snow, it likely still precipitates - rain. Rain on frozen ground means ice. Clear ice. The image we are left with is a crystallized landscape, like a tacky glass ornament with branches inside, or like an insect caught in amber. Everything just as it was before the cold, but overlaid with a layer of clear, solid ice.